Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by joatesiii, Mar 2, 2012.
It isn't about whether you personally wish to do so. It has everything to do with the fact that our rights shouldn't be subjugated. It should not matter how one decides to carry and there should be no need for any type of government approval to carry. A fundamental right cannot be legally or morally regulated by the government. Unfortunately, people have been complacent and allowed the continued encroachments that we now have to work to fix.
I hope it does pass but I will never open carry. If you are in a store when a bad guy walks up to from your blind side, you will be the first thing for him to neutralize. I prefer to be the unknown in the room and allow surprise to be on my side.
Can you cite an example of that ever happening?
Let me finish the Cato White Paper. There might be an example in it.
The biggest advantage I see to open carry, is the liability being taken away from CHL holders. Right now, at least in Texas, you can be prosecuted if you have a wardrobe malfunction. Making open carry legal would take that concern away.
I still can't believe that Texas (Yes, TEXAS) doesn't allow open carry.
Im not much on open carry its like advertisment of what you have that most people dont need to know. The looks you get too.!
As a person that lives in a state that does not force me to hide my weapon, I'd like to chime in. As many times as I have heard that open carriers are the first target, and I have had plenty of people on the street even engage me in conversation saying the same thing... in all reality, pretty much any criminal you might come across is looking for an easy target, not a known hard target. If they see a guy wearing a pistol, they will try their best to not be near him. I have seen people that I already didnt have a good feeling about just turn and head the other way after noticing. I will also add... I' am one of the guys in the following news story.
There are many other benefits I have found to carrying openly beyond that. I get asked questions often about what one must do to get a carry permit, where a good trustworthy gun store is, certain aspects of the law, etc. I get the opportunity to meet new people and to help get people on the path to begin carrying and protecting themselves. I have only had a few people that have had bad things to say and I have only had one person call the cops on me. I get to wear my weapon comfortably and in a very accessible manner. From a shot timer I know that from easy resting position I am .83 seconds to leave the holster and the hammer dropping on target at the 1.64 mark. When fully concealed I am at 1.4 seconds to draw and 2.25 to fire on target. That is of course under the ideal scenario that I know I am going to have to draw as well.
All that being said, I do conceal sometimes. I have a very nice comfortable IWB holster that is fully tuckable and I can make a full size 1911 with a magwell disapear under a light weight golf shirt. For business purposes I will conceal, but really only for that. My whole wedding party was OC and quite a few of the guests were as well.
As for Texas, I was glad when it was amended to say "intentionally fails to conceal"... that means they have to prove intent so wardrobe malfunctions are supposed to be cleared. The issue I really have is the combination you guys have out there of the 30.06 signs AND the mandatory concealment. Every time I got somewhere and there was one of those blasted signs, I had to go back to the car, get in, and then figure out how in the world I was going to disarm and NOT fail to conceal. Most of the time I would just leave and go elsewhere.... but I was there for business, and some of the places with signs were the reason I was even in the state at all. Signs to don't hold legal weight in GA.
And for the record... I am not trying to get into an OC /CC debate and tell anyone they are wonrg about the way they carry. My sole purpose was to try to explain why I do carry openly most of the time and why it works for me. Personally, I believe that one should be allowed to carry in any manner in which they choose... just CARYY!
Thank you all so much...please keep this discussion going. I started this thread for that very reason. I absolutely want Oklahoma to approve OC...I would like to have that option. I would like to learn more from those of you that do OC.
IMO oc is essential for maintaining and expanding our 2a rights. If people get used to seeing firearms legally carried in public without blood running in the streets it will go a long way to showing people that guns are just tools, not evil death machines.
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I agree with that statement. here where i live im about the only one to carry open so i get alot of dissaproving looks but it dont bother me i wish more people here would exercise their right and stop being afraid
Keep them coming. I am starting to change my mind about open carry. This is why I joined this form. Better first hand knowledge.
Since you want to keep this going... I guess I will directly address this statement. If you have a baddie that has not committed to violence yet, say he is thinking about robbing the store, has a gun in his pocket and hand on the grip. He is waiting for the time to be right... there is nothing in ANY history of all crimes that shows that he is going to pull his weapon, plug you then do the rest. People have been searching for this magical crime for years to use as an example as to why OC is bad. There are two examples of an OC person being attacked, but they are of very different circumstances. One was a man who constantly was challenging the gang bangers that lived in his area... they knew him, he knew them... he yelled at them, they threatened him... one day they take him out with a rifle at a distance. Another was under very suspicious circumstances and the witness says it looked like the baddie was already committed to the act when he realized the guy had a gun. but the guy with the gun was carrying in an open top and not paying any attention... and the baddie took his gun from him.
Okay, those out of the way... there are no other stories that I have managed to hear out of all of these discussion I have read. Because of the attention drawn to myself and the OCer in the story, we got questions from a lot of people. I was constantly asked if I thought about them coming in knowing who to shoot first "because that is what most bad guys would do" no it isnt! Most bad guys want little to no resistance, even when in superior numbers or superiorly armed.... they want to take easily and damned sure do not want to risk getting shot. here is the other thing... situational awareness is key. When OC you MUST keep your head on a swivel. you have to know where people are and how they are moving... you have to pay attention. In that scenario of the bad guys coming in shooting, while it would have sucked.... bad... I might have come out okay. We were facing each other so he was watching my back and I his. If either of us saw dudes in masks coming around the corner with long guns, we could have started to react then. the entrance to a place like that is a fatal funnel... to get in, they all have to get in line and there is no room to have a long gun raised while in the entrance until you make it past the second door. So they would have to want to just storm across a parking lot, run up to a window and kill us through the glass like some crap you see from gangter movies.
when was the last time you heard about that happening in real life?
How you carry is calculated risk, hell going outside every day is a calculated risk too. For me, I have many benefits of being able to be a social ambassador for our cause... I have the deterrence against guys that dont want to trade rounds and see who is the better shot... and I have not lost any advantage against the guy that is going to come in shooting anyway... here is why. If he is so set on killing me because of my weapon before he is trapped INTO the situation... then he is planning on killing everyone in the room before he goes anyway. Most dont scout so if he came in he would likely be focused on the clerk/cashier/whatever to make his point, get money, and go.... odds of him noticing me first are low and if he does, he still might not be so comitted that he pulls the trigger, he may just turn and run.
I know I am getting long winded here, but some of it is rambling to try to cover a lot. As I posted earlier, I do CC sometimes and I have nothing against it and have nothing against people that CC full time and never have or will OC. My statements are purely to show the reasons why I do, and to help some people who have never thought about it start to. If you have some specific questions about how I go about certain things or about anything else... i'd love to answer them if I am able. I have had a few experiences involving my gun since I began carrying, the time I really needed to use it... being CC nearly cost me dearly.
GSL and Priest raise good points... I like the statements about being "ambassadors" for the 2nd Amendment. I recall a srory, and it would take some digging, where an OC citizen was shot first in an attempted robbery because the turd spotted the weapon. That being said, consider that LEOs are very visible, and normally OC in uniform. Presenting ones self as armed, whether you be LEO or citizen, is literally presenting a law level of force. MOST bad-guys will go out of thief way to avoid a confrontation with someone who has the capability to MEET their own force. As I stated in the school shooting discussion, bad guys are looking for easy targets, ones who have no "teeth". If you go around baring your "teeth", then bad-guy generally does not want to get bit. It does serve as a deterrent. That being said, there are bag-guys out there looking for harder targets, and intendig to challenge. This occurs more and more frequently with LEOs these days. Bad-guys go out intending to kill officers for whatever reason, and in a couple cases, any convenient LEO will do. LEOs are taught in officer survival to carry concealed because of this dynamic, as well as something ill cover in a minute. A person carrying OC does run a small risk of being confused for an LEO target.. Now, back to my 2nd reason for LEOs carrying concealed off-duty: As I mentioned, being on any scene openly carrying is presenting force - for an LEO it is called command presence. If you are truly tactically minded and conscious of the welfare of civilians (non-carrying persons) around - you may find that not EVERY situation requires immediate intervention. You don't want to be in a shootout with civilians in between, because some scumbag wanted to rob the bank - I don't care how good of a shot you are. It is very possible that the OC force you are presenting will be immediately detected by our would be robber who has already entered the bank, brandished a firearm, and has passed the point of no return. Bad-guy was originally intending on robbing an easy target, then sees the open firearm - at a minimum he is gout to focus all efforts on you.. period. Do you shoot if you have a safe shot? Sure you do... But if you don't, do you think bad-guy really has the same level of concern for the civilians as you? Sometimes it is just as critical to simply be a good witness as it is to bare teeth.
Now let me redirect to the top again - I'm a PROponent of OC, I just wanted to add my own caution there. I personally carry concealed 100% of the time and practice drawing and shooting from the same position to do it quickly and smoothly. When I am out fishing, or camping, I OC, and there are situations where I DO want folks to know I'm armed. If someone wishes to OC I'm all for it - in the end it is a personal decision deriving from a God-given right - and its up to the individual to ascertain what manner of carry is suitable or them.
Thanks for pointing that out for others, I should have made that clear. My concern is not so much conviction, as prosecution. I am confident that I would not be found guilty, but how much time and money would be involved to reach that point? LEOs aren't perfect, and there are too many laws for them to know them all. Legal OC would remove any doubt in an officer's mind.
I like to open carry while hunting, fishing, hiking or jeeping. If we stop in somewhere during those activities I continue to OC. I don't like being looked at and while in a gun friendly area OC still draws gawkers.
Okay I just read over the bill and it is not "open Carry" they are in a nutshell adding an Open or unconcealed option to the firearm license holders. As of right now it is illegal for you to open carry on your property. This is not going to be open carry for the general pop of the state of Oklahoma, you will still need a handgun license to carry concealed or unconcealed. Again it is an option to ad to your daily ritual if you wish to carry open great.
For another example on the "ambassador" aspect I'll share an experience from today.
I went to the tobacco shop I get my supplies from to pick up some things and while in line the woman behind me asked if I was a cop or a bounty hunter. I responded that I was neither, but that I was licensed by the State to carry, and did so everywhere I legally could. She asked a few questions, and I helped inform her on some things she was misinformed on about gun registration and licensing requirements. The next guy in line asked a couple of questions and I answered, then I pulled out a couple of business cards for Georgia Carry (our local gun rights group) and for my local favorite gun store and range. I gave them to them while talking and we all headed for the door. Two other people in line, and the store clerk asked for a set of cards as well. The young lady will be heading up to my favorite gun store tomorrow to see about some instruction and gun rental and said she will be going to the probate court to apply for her license this week.
I have these kinds of encounters occasionally, usually when I am in an area that is not considered the "safe" side of town, and usually from people that are scared for their safety in the area they live in but do not know that they may protect themselves. This of course is only part of the reason I OC often, but I feel it is an important part.
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