[Video] Law Student Open Carrying Teaches Uninformed Officer a Few Things About Rights
In the below video a Portland, ME law student teaches a local police officer a few things about rights.
The officer illegally stops the man, seizes his firearm, sweeps him with the loaded gun in the process, and refuses to return his gun for almost three minutes until his supervisor shows up and immediately says the student is free to go.
For those that aren’t aware, courts have ruled that the mere presence of a gun is not enough of a reason to stop and detain someone.
I know not everyone is an advocate for open carry, but you have to respect this young man for knowing his rights so well, knowing the case law that supports those rights and remaining cool and calm during the encounter. Also, despite the police officer inappropriately stopping the individual he did a great job staying cool and calm as well. He was also willing to call his supervisor and not escalate the situation.
Open carry is legal where the video was shot, please note that openly carrying a gun is not legal in every state.
Sorry for the vertical orientation of the video, looks like it was shot on a cell phone.
Video originally posted on Facebook here:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=271078519691519
Trackbacks and Pingbacks
- How to resist hired political thugs--I mean law enforcement goons--legally | Because They Told Me Not To
- More Civilian Schooling Of Police On Rights | YouViewed/Editorial
- Ballsy Law Student Schools Uninformed Law Officer on Gun Rights | Tarpon's Swamp
- Moonbattery » Know Your Rights
- What are your thoughts on open carry?
I was in a car accident grabbed what I thought was my license and gave it to the officer responding to the scene. The Texas DL and CHL look almost identical. The Fort Worth police officer looked befuddled, he had no idea what I had handed him. He asked me what kind of ID that way, I told it was the Texas state concealed handgun license. He said he had never seen one before. WTF? They don’t even know what their CHLs look like for the state. I was flabbergasted as I retrieved my DL from my wallet. So if they don’t know that do you think they know case law and precedent?
Actually, only if asked for identification are you obligated to inform a Texas law enforcement officer of your concealed carry status. If the officer doesn’t ask for ID, you don’t have to say anything.
Maybe he was a rookie – honestly, I would cite a lack of training than blaming the cop himself.
re texas incident, in TX when you have ANY interaction with a cop while carrying concealed the law says that YOU must inform the cop that you are carrying. you are lucky that the cop you encountered was not a very good cop
actually, in Texas, the law states:
GC ยง411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. (a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder’s person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder’s driver’s license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder’s handgun license.
so if you are not carrying, you really don’t have to give them your CHL.
I’ve visited with officers before, they have asked my name, I tell them. If they ask for ID and I’m carrying, I give them both. If I’m not carrying, I only give my DL to the officer.
Also, you only have to show ID if you are suspected of a crime. Otherwise, it is sufficient to tell them your name and state of residence.
Back in the day, I would also recommend to Texas CHL holders to tape your drivers license and CHL back to back, just so you will always be compliant
Good job dude. I can’t wait to open carry when get back from my deployment.
While the young man being stopped has some valid points, he is not entirely correct relative to his interpretation of whether he needs to identify himself or what rights he has and the police officer has with regards to the Terry stop. As there was a call for service on a man with a gun, the police were obligated to investigate. In the course of that investigation, the officer was within his rights to take control of the weapon until such time as it was ascertained the individual was not engaged in any illegal activity. The call for service and seeing the man matching the call was the probable cause for the Terry stop. If the young man would have just be less strident about his rights and the misquoting of case law, he probably would have been allowed to leave sooner. It seems both sides exercised restraint, but it is never a good idfea to challenghe a police officer during a stop. The Supreme Court has already ruled regarding Terry vs Ohio and has re-visi9ted the case several times for clarification. Further, the SCOTUS has also ruled that a police officer in the course of their duty/investigation may request your identification to make sure you are not wanted for some other offense during the Terry stop.
Frank, all of that is true, but there are several Supreme Court and state Supreme Court cases that say the mere presence of a gun is not enough grounds to detain someone. The courts have repeatedly felt that carrying a gun is an exception to everything you just mentioned.
Frank, I’m a former police officer here in the great state of Maine. Per Maine law, you are only required to produce identification per MRSA Title 17-A, Section 15-A, Paragraph 2 (emphasis added by me) if: “Any person who a law enforcement officer has PROBABLE CAUSE to believe HAS COMMITTED or IS COMMITTING a crime…” Open carry in the state of Maine is a LEGAL activity. The stop the officer did on this guy was ILLEGAL per Maine law, as he did not have PROBABLE CAUSE, much different than REASONABLY ARTICULABLE SUSPICION. It’s just as lawful in Maine to open carry as it is to take a stroll down the street. Someone calling and complaining about an activity that is legal does not give ANY officer the authority to violate an individual’s personal liberties.
Wrong. No crime was observed. No reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime was present. You cant approach someone fishing for a crime. Some cop cant just come up to you without any RAS of a crime and say “I think you might be a felon,” without any other facts to justify the stop to begin with.. They use that one all the time..”We have to make sure you’re not a felon.” That’s only if the stop was legally justified to begin with and in this case is definitely was not. Maine doeant even have a stop and identify statute that falls in line with the “Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada” US Supreme Court case. Youre dead wrong.
That would be completely incorrect. 1) the officer stopped the man matching the call 2) since there was no report of a crime, just a “man with a gun”, the officer had no cause for continued investigation, as that “man with a gun” wasn’t doing anything illegal, no cause for “probable cause”. 3) The officer illegally detained the person for no valid reason, seized the weapon, with no valid reason, refused to return the weapon with no valid reason.that’s 3 instances of the officer violating the person’s liberties 4) the biggest point of your remarks,it is never a good idfea to challenghe a police officer during a stop… is an out right farce. An officer has an obligation to answer any and all questions about the reason for the stop, any complaint against you, any intentions of the officer during the stop. To state that it’s not a “good idea” to question the officer, is simply ridiculous. Every time an officer makes a stop, he should be prepared to answer ALL questions, whether they want to or not. The person being stopped or detained, has the right to remain silent, the officer does not. Regardless if you know case law, the officer must adhere to the law, not departmental policy.
Terry stops are not legal in many states and as for taking the mans personal property and detaining without due process of the law that is a crime read Constitution 4th amendment. though the court says Terry stops are ok they violate the 4th amendment clearly
I bet you like the NYC Stop and Frisk Law ?
Would you ask a car salesman to tell you about every mechanical device under the hood? Then why would you ask a police officer about YOUR rights?
Case Law also says Police can LIE TO YOU as part of their job.
Think about that the next time you talk about police as being the “Finest” in your town.
Case Law also says Police can LIE TO YOU as part of their job.
ah that is incorrect brad, reason being if i ask an officer is is it legal to do some thing and he full wells knows that it is not and says yes it is and then arrests you for it then that is entrapment knowingly mislead you into committing a crime when he knew it was illegal in the first place. now if your a heroin dealer selling dope and you ask him are a cop? of course then he can lie and say no i am not because your committing the crime in the first place.
Did I say they could knowingly mislead you into committing a crime? No I did not. Nice Try Officer. But you know as well as I do that Case Law permits lying by Police.
ok if someone is walking down the street with a base ball bat or worse a gun and this person is a felon but that is not known and i call up police because i’m concerned and the police find this person.can the police stop him and ask for id to make sure everthing is on the up an up???
No. That is illegal unless they are committing a crime (carrying a firearm is not a crime in most states). Why are you concerned about someone walking down the street carrying a holstered gun on their side? I see it everyday in my state.
I find it very troubling that such a legal and fairly common practice of open carry is “unknown” to local police, OR IS IT? I suspect this is a practice to deter people from doing it even though it is legal.
Either a cop knows the law, or he is out on the streets on a militaristic power trip.
unfortunately the latter has become the norm since the Vietnam war when ex military have taken over the civilian police departments. there are no civilian police today 40 years later, its a very them vs us mentality, its not healthy for freedom and makes society a militaristic police state.
but who really cares? the republic is dead, long live the phony democracy.
This is an older video that i have seem numerous times. The young gentleman is correct on all fronts and it’s very rookie officers like the one in said video, that provoke these kind of interactions. You have to realize that officers are reviewed either quarterly or yearly based on the dept., so they have a duty to try and be as proactive as possible. That is what this officer was doing, and he was trying VERY hard to get some ID.
You do not have to furnish an officer with ID if he has no RAS. You don’t even have to talk to the officer, you can simply walk away in some situations. But in this type of scenario, the best thing to do is to know your rights, run video and audio (where lawful) and be very clear and concise.
I open carry all day, wherever i go. Now obviously some places don’t allow guns, so i don’t give them my business, simple as that. When Open carrying, it’s about promoting confidence and awareness, not trying to hide among the people, trust me, it’s very difficult…
I think what we see here is a very brave citizen advocate and in fact a Peace Officer who was trying his best to be reasonable.. simply unaware of the law and unfamiliar with the situation.. Both should be commended for their conduct.. (Keep in mind the Peace Officer could have become a Police Man a Law Enforcement Officer… Lied, been aggressive and just made shit up.. his honor and integrity forfeited for his ego. He did not and for that he deserves to be respected.
Some have commented the young fellow should have been more polite and calm.. Tough job for a seasoned adult let alone a young fellow ( I was young once lol).
Some have commented the Peace Officer was ignorant of the Law.. again tough job to find yourself being used by some smuck/hoplaphope/anti-gun activists war dialing the police in order to try and suppress liberties..
This encounter goes a long ways toward justifying that a complant must be filed openly by persons not just a “911″ call.. The person filing the complaint should have had a police contact and interview as well and that should have been included in the record to insure this was not a “SWATTING” effort..
Here is something else to consider..
In Arizona open Carry was incorporated into the State Constitution at it’s formation.. There is Permit Concealed Carry and Constitutional Concealed Carry.
Peace Officers were brought up knowing it was a lawful act to open carry. They have come to respect and treat citizens not with fear but courage and in turn the public does not hesitate to come to Peace Officers aid.. in one case a citizen engaging three Narco Terrorist in a Gun battle standing over the body of a dying Peace Officer murdered by the trio. The police response? After collecting the Citizen’s Weapon as evidence and determining he had no other handgun the Local Police Officers Association representative showed up took the citizen to a local gun shop and paid for his lawful purchase of a replacement weapon, magazines and such.
The best thing that can happen is for citizens to exercise all their rights in a respectful and peaceable manner to include their right to Open Carry and do so as often as is practical.. Encourage and defend every honorable Peace Officer holding every dishonorable Law Enforcement Office to task for their misconduct.
Dress and behave well.
Well groomed physically fit, clean and neat brown leather where possible… Courteous to all including and friendly to a fault…
Let people see we are all safer for the presence of peaceable openly armed citizens and the effects will be positive for all..including the Second Amendment..
Wm
What happened to the video? It was deleted from my facebook page?
Video available on youtube